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Richard Erlacher
03/13/07 12:37
Read: 406 times
Denver, Co
USA


 
#134895 - are you sure you're not overstating your case?
Responding to: Kai Klaas's previous message
For many years people built PCB's that successfully ran very fast circuits on two-layer boards. They built supercomputers, not to mention several generations of pretty fast DSP and video processing boards. It's possible, also, to build rubbish on a 4-layer or even 16-layer board.

Mike's board will run at 12 MHz (if he gets off the silly notion that becaus his oscillator seems to work at 18.432 MHz, he's "got it working" at that rate), which is not ultra-slow, but it's really operating at something like 1 MHz for most functions.

I've seen student-built boards that had no ground plane or power plane and were not too neatly hand-wired, yet worked quite solidly, often for long periods at a time without any hitches. I think it 's much less a matter of what's being built, and much more a matter of how. I've seen very terrible-looking combined analog, digital, and RF boards that had wires looping through the air, IC's soldered onto the board with only one or two pins touching the board, and lots of "spider-web" technology, yet they worked very well at frequencies well into the hundreds of MHz. It's all in knowing how to do it. The guys who know how to do that can design really good PCB's, too, but have convinced me that one can build circuits that work well on one or two layer boards with appropriate care.

RE



List of 81 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
new PCB software wanted      Mike Stegmaier      03/12/07 09:18      
   If that is the case be happy, the more jumpe      Erik Malund      03/12/07 09:33      
   Mike, when will you...      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 10:31      
      It isn't me      Mike Stegmaier      03/12/07 10:50      
         Four layer boards??      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 11:03      
            The only you get is a circuit >somwhat working<      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 11:22      
               sure, but he does not want to 'design' he wants to      Erik Malund      03/12/07 11:30      
                  Connect A to B      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 11:35      
                     naah      Erik Malund      03/12/07 11:43      
               are you sure you're not overstating your case?      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 12:37      
                  EMC issues      Joseph Hebert      03/13/07 12:43      
                  As sure as one can be...      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 13:28      
                     All my commercial wire-wrap boards had 'em      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 13:53      
                        by Dr Howard Johnson and the like      Erik Malund      03/13/07 14:47      
                           I don't think so ...      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 22:19      
                              so you DO think so      Erik Malund      03/14/07 06:09      
                                 Well, yes and no ...      Richard Erlacher      03/14/07 10:53      
                                    true, but how often have we seen      Erik Malund      03/14/07 11:08      
                                       you can't FIX everything      Richard Erlacher      03/14/07 12:59      
                                          not a word about lying      Erik Malund      03/14/07 13:33      
                                             That would be a mistake      Richard Erlacher      03/14/07 21:54      
                                                qualities often lacking      Erik Malund      03/15/07 06:09      
                                                   Yes, and that's where the real lesson lies.      Richard Erlacher      03/15/07 11:10      
                        Almost total agree...      Kai Klaas      03/14/07 20:28      
                           I don't think we entirely disagree, Kai ...      Richard Erlacher      03/14/07 22:32      
                              Yes, less and less entire disagree...      Kai Klaas      03/14/07 22:43      
                     Slot antenna      Joseph Hebert      03/13/07 14:11      
                        I think it's a loop, not so much a slot antenna      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 23:29      
                           Slot antennae      Joseph Hebert      03/14/07 05:11      
                              Exactly!      Kai Klaas      03/14/07 19:22      
   "Target"      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 12:13      
      Free Target?      Andy Neil      03/12/07 13:18      
         Identical      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 15:36      
            I found 1/2 the answer      Mike Stegmaier      03/12/07 17:51      
               why library for LCD?      Patrick De Groote      03/12/07 17:54      
                  It doesn\'t require a library, just a decent editor      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 13:17      
               ??      Kai Klaas      03/12/07 19:49      
               In many respects, bEagle is probably the WORST      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 13:15      
                  I don't like Eagle either! It's not professional!      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 13:30      
                  hmm      Mike Stegmaier      03/16/07 08:09      
                     You may want to go back and read the comments      Richard Erlacher      03/16/07 15:46      
                        I have given up to help Mike...      Kai Klaas      03/16/07 22:58      
                           I'm not stuck to eagle      Mike Stegmaier      03/17/07 07:19      
                              I would try to get a second hand win98 PC      Kai Klaas      03/17/07 09:03      
                                 He hasn't searched for drivers yet.      Richard Erlacher      03/17/07 10:18      
                                    Not necessarily true...      Robert Revens      03/17/07 12:16      
                                       not necessarily, but very likely      Richard Erlacher      03/17/07 12:18      
                              You guys must like microsoft alot      Mike Stegmaier      03/17/07 20:23      
                                 ... and you're sure it doesn't emulate a laserjet?      Richard Erlacher      03/17/07 23:21      
                                    stabile and relialbe ?!      Andy Neil      03/18/07 17:00      
                                       Well the OS (XP in this case) doesn't type well      Richard Erlacher      03/18/07 17:32      
                                          Stability      Andy Neil      03/19/07 03:02      
                                             if it ain't broken...      Patrick De Groote      03/19/07 11:13      
            Not Identical      Jon Ledbetter      03/13/07 10:51      
               Huh?      Robert Revens      03/13/07 11:21      
                  Looks to me like it is just for hobby or      Jon Ledbetter      03/13/07 11:32      
                     What is your manufacturer?      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 11:48      
                        Sunstone Circuits      Jon Ledbetter      03/13/07 12:00      
                           Thanks      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 12:53      
               Identical refering to operation, of course!      Kai Klaas      03/13/07 11:47      
                  No, but      Jon Ledbetter      03/13/07 12:08      
                     much of?      Erik Malund      03/13/07 12:20      
                        One thing he finally accepted ...      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 13:27      
         Ah, thanks :)      Caslav Nedeljkovic      03/13/07 09:39      
      Wrong windows      Dennis Welbourn      03/12/07 13:18      
   See my other post...      Rob Vassar      03/12/07 12:25      
   see my pcb tutorial link in chat forum      Mahmood Elnasser      03/12/07 13:43      
      What about the associated software?      Andy Neil      03/13/07 10:34      
         No direct output      Robert Revens      03/13/07 11:25      
         haven't tried it      Mahmood Elnasser      03/13/07 11:33      
   There's a learning curve with any package      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 10:22      
      Link?      Rob Vassar      03/13/07 10:23      
         maybe that's why it still exists      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 12:06      
      Running on a Windoze box?      Andy Neil      03/13/07 10:29      
         It works best on a DOS-box      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 12:16      
      without commenting on he wisdom      Erik Malund      03/13/07 11:51      
         The DOS-OrCAD files import into Capture      Richard Erlacher      03/13/07 12:25      
   Links to other Schematic/Layout software      Jon Ledbetter      03/13/07 11:45      
   A Guy in England      Joseph Hebert      03/13/07 12:39      
   pcb software      John C Barrett      03/14/07 14:54      
      PCB123      Andy Neil      03/14/07 17:27      

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