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Per Westermark
06/16/09 07:28
Read: 248 times
Sweden


 
#166136 - Generic solutions applicable to more people
Responding to: David Prentice's previous message
As a general concept, reading code is a very good way of learning. But this form of learning does not require the code to correspond to any real problem at hand. It is just a question of reading code - any code - of a suitable complexity. Good code shows techniques to use. Bad code shows what to avoid. With more experience, the size of the projects or the complexity can be increased.

When I started to program, I harvested a lot of ftp sites. I downloaded whatever code I could lay my hands on and read it and tried to understand what the code did, and tried to figure out what reason the developer could have had for doing it that way and if I could possibly see any alternative ways of doing the same thing.

This was not: "I need code for a multiplexed display". This was: Anyone know of an ftp site with lots of source code? Then I took it from there. It was a way of collecting the basic building blocks. I could then correlate what I picked up from the source code with computer algorithms books I bought or read at the library.

In the end, I felt that this was a good way of very quickly gain the knowledge to write my own programs from scratch. After all, the end goal was not to be able to adjust someone elses code, but to learn to write at least as good code myself, on my own.

But this approach only works if the focus - at all times - is to understand exactly what makes the code tick. Sometimes down to the last variable. Sometimes just quickly browsing through a large code mass and ignore the regular stuff while trying to see if the code has any advanced secrets to focus on.

"Give me code" is a request by someone who don't care about how the code works, and who have no interest in being able to adopt the code. Both a professional or a caring student would instead focus on their current knowledge level, and how they can extend that knowledge or how they can improve on an existing solution.

If someone asks about a concept, I can spend 5 minutes giving a pseudo-code answer. Or I can spend 60 minutes giving a "real code" answer. The question is: Why should I spend the extra 55 minutes? These 55 minutes could be used either to write code for myself, or for giving several more answers. After all, the total amount of time available for giving people help is limited. People are also more willing to help people who are willing to spend time helping themselves. And if posting code, more people have use of generic solutions than specific solutions only applicable to the OP.

List of 95 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
What's wrong with gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/15/09 23:24      
   Mainly        Jez Smith      06/16/09 00:33      
      I agree with Jez Smith        Kiran V. Sutar      06/16/09 01:49      
         Non academic gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/16/09 02:41      
            This makes me very suspicious      Jez Smith      06/16/09 02:52      
            gimme code=my own time is too valuable      Per Westermark      06/16/09 03:34      
               Easy to see which is school assignment      David Prentice      06/16/09 03:54      
                  The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions      Per Westermark      06/16/09 04:24      
            "Here's what I've come up with ...      Christoph Franck      06/16/09 04:56      
               But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton?      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 05:12      
                  The teacher recognises the good student      David Prentice      06/16/09 05:33      
                     Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:35      
                  nothing IF ...      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:50      
            children should do their own homework      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:32      
   What's wrong with gimmee code.      Joseph Hebert      06/16/09 00:44      
   Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..?      Mahesh Joshi      06/16/09 06:05      
      perhaps it enables ...      David Prentice      06/16/09 06:28      
         Generic solutions applicable to more people      Per Westermark      06/16/09 07:28      
         Then they'll become expert at potty ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:37      
   it makes you dumb!      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:42      
   How'd you like ten of those guys working for you?        Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:39      
      But that's the point!      Kai Klaas      06/17/09 08:39      
         We agree in principle, Kai ... but ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:16      
         Hiring & firing is expensive!      Andy Neil      06/18/09 01:42      
            and that's not all!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 07:41      
   As an example      Jez Smith      06/16/09 15:17      
      No-one is suggesting breach of copyright      David Prentice      06/16/09 15:37      
         arrogance?      Erik Malund      06/16/09 15:48      
            Examples of Erik's arrogance        Hans Heinz      06/17/09 08:52      
               no, I do not state any such,      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:15      
                   A couple of corrections      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:29      
                     more useful product?      Erik Malund      06/17/09 12:30      
         life is not B&W      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 15:53      
            Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints        Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:47      
               Votes and freedom of speech?      Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:57      
               When I was a youngster ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 02:01      
                  Returning to the original subject.      David Prentice      06/17/09 02:24      
                     same same but sometimes different      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:57      
                     Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:43      
                  Versatility and diversification      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:52      
                     This is 8052.COM      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:35      
                  and.....        Jez Smith      06/17/09 05:05      
         There's always help for those who can do their own work.      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 01:40      
            There's the key!      Andy Neil      06/17/09 01:54      
         that is not the issue      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:18      
            I'm with you 100% on that, Erik      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:46      
               calm down Richard        Jez Smith      06/17/09 11:23      
                  support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 16:26      
                     it?      Erik Malund      06/18/09 08:44      
                        Which MCU's will KEIL support?      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 13:22      
                           Irrelevant      Per Westermark      06/18/09 16:34      
                              Keil's blind spot      Andy Neil      06/18/09 17:33      
                                 Keil will probably get squeezed      Per Westermark      06/18/09 17:50      
                              If only that were the case      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 22:49      
                                 Portable 'C' [edited]        Andy Neil      06/19/09 01:56      
                                 Write what you mean or mean what you write      Per Westermark      06/19/09 03:33      
                                    OK ... Here's the point      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 16:13      
                                       If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices      Per Westermark      06/19/09 17:37      
                                 C is not that difficult      David Prentice      06/19/09 04:20      
                                    I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 19:27      
                                    Richard misses the point completely        Jez Smith      06/20/09 00:18      
                  The thing is...      Andy Neil      06/17/09 17:08      
                     I don't think thats true at all      Jez Smith      06/18/09 04:13      
                        Not what I meant      Andy Neil      06/18/09 05:15      
                           Andy's right!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 08:11      
         elders and betters would have given a helpful reply.      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:15      
   If you think 8052.com is bad ...      Andy Peters      06/17/09 13:14      
   When was it the last time someone asked for code?      Jan Waclawek      06/17/09 15:56      
      oohhh      Jez Smith      06/17/09 16:04      
      Here?      Andy Neil      06/17/09 16:23      
      Latest example of "Gimme Code"      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:01      
   What the forums are all about        CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/26/09 07:39      
      Progress        Steve M. Taylor      06/26/09 10:41      
         No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities"        Per Westermark      06/26/09 11:22      
            patience      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:28      
         inexperienced      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:16      
            Well actually...      Steve M. Taylor      06/27/09 09:44      
               you must have a very smart wife      Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:59      
                  If you're a friend ;-)      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:30      
      arrogant?      Erik Malund      06/26/09 13:44      
         encouragement      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:34      
            absolutely        Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:05      
            What you have to remember        Jez Smith      06/27/09 22:30      
               Tim Berners-Lee      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:33      
                  he only invented the web thingy      Jez Smith      06/28/09 10:49      
                     Exhausted all the possibilities...      Per Westermark      06/28/09 13:25      
                        this is just not fair      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 13:47      
                           It's about attitude      Per Westermark      06/28/09 15:22      
                              on intentions etc.      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 16:27      
                              98% of 100      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:23      
                           good and bad      Erik Malund      06/28/09 15:24      
      OK Charles (et al), here's your chance!        Andy Neil      06/28/09 18:58      
         re: OK Charles here's your chance      CHARLES TOWNSEND      07/02/09 07:44      
            QED.      Andy Neil      07/02/09 08:58      
            Yet one more exhausted visitor      Per Westermark      07/03/09 02:40      

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