| Richard Erlacher 06/16/09 13:32 Read: 250 times Denver, Co USA |
#166151 - children should do their own homework Responding to: Murray R. Van Luyn's previous message |
Murray R. Van Luyn said:
Hi Kiran,
It sounds like you have had unpleasant experience guiding students. I can clearly see your point about not getting involved. I'm more for providing both motivated students and the enthusiast community, with the broadest selection of valuable academic resources. There is great benefit to the individual when provided with a variety of approaches to a given programming problem. What about non-student developers? As it stands, as a graduate, I'll be shredded for requesting all interested perspectives of a problem, one that I may be currently researching. I'm denied the full complement of academic resources, by this anti-gimme code regeim. Regards, Murray R. Van Luyn. Can you provide even one example of non-academic "gimme-code"? I'd suggest that every request for code be met with an example written in 8048 Assembler, with the conversion task left to the "student." It's similar enough that a small piece of code might well work as-is, aside from i/o, but ... Further, providing 'C'-coded examples simply promotes the notion that one can write code in 'C' and never have to learn anything about the the embedded environment, or, for that matter, anything else important. Replies to requests for HLL should be provided in BNF and not in Cobol, Fortran, PL/1, 'C', Pascal, or any other "real" language. People who can't code what they need in ASM aren't programmers, they're just fools if they think they can perform embedded tasks entirely in 'C'. Real programmers can write in 'C' or Pascal, or whatever, yet know when they have to use other tools. If you can't write your program in ASM, you don't know what you're doing. That doesn't mean a programmer shouldn't use HLL's, but it does mean he should know quite well what the resulting ASM should be. Trying to write a delay loop in a HLL is clear evidence of what a person doesn't know. RE |
| Topic | Author | Date |
| What's wrong with gimme code? | Murray R. Van Luyn | 06/15/09 23:24 |
| Mainly | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 00:33 |
| I agree with Jez Smith | Kiran V. Sutar | 06/16/09 01:49 |
| Non academic gimme code? | Murray R. Van Luyn | 06/16/09 02:41 |
| This makes me very suspicious | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 02:52 |
| gimme code=my own time is too valuable | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 03:34 |
| Easy to see which is school assignment | David Prentice | 06/16/09 03:54 |
| The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 04:24 |
| "Here's what I've come up with ... | Christoph Franck | 06/16/09 04:56 |
| But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton? | Jan Waclawek | 06/16/09 05:12 |
| The teacher recognises the good student | David Prentice | 06/16/09 05:33 |
| Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:35 |
| nothing IF ... | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 08:50 |
| children should do their own homework | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:32 |
| What's wrong with gimmee code. | Joseph Hebert | 06/16/09 00:44 |
| Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..? | Mahesh Joshi | 06/16/09 06:05 |
| perhaps it enables ... | David Prentice | 06/16/09 06:28 |
| Generic solutions applicable to more people | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 07:28 |
| Then they'll become expert at potty ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:37 |
| it makes you dumb! | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 08:42 |
| How'd you like ten of those guys working for you? | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:39 |
| But that's the point! | Kai Klaas | 06/17/09 08:39 |
| We agree in principle, Kai ... but ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:16 |
| Hiring & firing is expensive! | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 01:42 |
| and that's not all! | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 07:41 |
| As an example | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 15:17 |
| No-one is suggesting breach of copyright | David Prentice | 06/16/09 15:37 |
| arrogance? | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 15:48 |
| Examples of Erik's arrogance | Hans Heinz | 06/17/09 08:52 |
| no, I do not state any such, | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 09:15 |
| A couple of corrections | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:29 |
| more useful product? | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 12:30 |
| life is not B&W | Jan Waclawek | 06/16/09 15:53 |
| Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 16:47 |
| Votes and freedom of speech? | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 16:57 |
| When I was a youngster ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 02:01 |
| Returning to the original subject. | David Prentice | 06/17/09 02:24 |
| same same but sometimes different | Per Westermark | 06/17/09 02:57 |
| Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:43 |
| Versatility and diversification | Per Westermark | 06/17/09 02:52 |
| This is 8052.COM | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:35 |
| and..... | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 05:05 |
| There's always help for those who can do their own work. | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 01:40 |
| There's the key! | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 01:54 |
| that is not the issue | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 09:18 |
| I'm with you 100% on that, Erik | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:46 |
| calm down Richard | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 11:23 |
| support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 16:26 |
| it? | Erik Malund | 06/18/09 08:44 |
| Which MCU's will KEIL support? | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 13:22 |
| Irrelevant | Per Westermark | 06/18/09 16:34 |
| Keil's blind spot | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 17:33 |
| Keil will probably get squeezed | Per Westermark | 06/18/09 17:50 |
| If only that were the case | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 22:49 |
| Portable 'C' [edited] | Andy Neil | 06/19/09 01:56 |
| Write what you mean or mean what you write | Per Westermark | 06/19/09 03:33 |
| OK ... Here's the point | Richard Erlacher | 06/19/09 16:13 |
| If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices | Per Westermark | 06/19/09 17:37 |
| C is not that difficult | David Prentice | 06/19/09 04:20 |
| I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree | Richard Erlacher | 06/19/09 19:27 |
| Richard misses the point completely | Jez Smith | 06/20/09 00:18 |
| The thing is... | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 17:08 |
| I don't think thats true at all | Jez Smith | 06/18/09 04:13 |
| Not what I meant | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 05:15 |
| Andy's right! | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 08:11 |
| elders and betters would have given a helpful reply. | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:15 |
| If you think 8052.com is bad ... | Andy Peters | 06/17/09 13:14 |
| When was it the last time someone asked for code? | Jan Waclawek | 06/17/09 15:56 |
| oohhh | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 16:04 |
| Here? | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 16:23 |
| Latest example of "Gimme Code" | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:01 |
| What the forums are all about | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/26/09 07:39 |
| Progress | Steve M. Taylor | 06/26/09 10:41 |
| No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities" | Per Westermark | 06/26/09 11:22 |
| patience | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:28 |
| inexperienced | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:16 |
| Well actually... | Steve M. Taylor | 06/27/09 09:44 |
| you must have a very smart wife | Erik Malund | 06/27/09 09:59 |
| If you're a friend ;-) | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/09 04:30 |
| arrogant? | Erik Malund | 06/26/09 13:44 |
| encouragement | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:34 |
| absolutely | Erik Malund | 06/27/09 09:05 |
| What you have to remember | Jez Smith | 06/27/09 22:30 |
| Tim Berners-Lee | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/09 04:33 |
| he only invented the web thingy | Jez Smith | 06/28/09 10:49 |
| Exhausted all the possibilities... | Per Westermark | 06/28/09 13:25 |
| this is just not fair | Jan Waclawek | 06/28/09 13:47 |
| It's about attitude | Per Westermark | 06/28/09 15:22 |
| on intentions etc. | Jan Waclawek | 06/28/09 16:27 |
| 98% of 100 | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:23 |
| good and bad | Erik Malund | 06/28/09 15:24 |
| OK Charles (et al), here's your chance! | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 18:58 |
| re: OK Charles here's your chance | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 07/02/09 07:44 |
| QED. | Andy Neil | 07/02/09 08:58 |
Yet one more exhausted visitor | Per Westermark | 07/03/09 02:40 |



