| Per Westermark 06/16/09 16:47 Read: 250 times Sweden Msg Score: +1 +1 Good Answer/Helpful |
#166163 - Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints Responding to: Jan Waclawek's previous message |
Richard said:
If you can't write your program in ASM, you don't know what you're doing. That doesn't mean a programmer shouldn't use HLL's, but it does mean he should know quite well what the resulting ASM should be. Trying to write a delay loop in a HLL is clear evidence of what a person doesn't know. If you work as a software professional, you may have to support 10 different products using 5 different processor architectures. Some may have 8-pin microcontrollers with a couple of hundred bytes of flash. Some may run a full Linux system. With a full-blown GNU/Linux system on a PPC, you don't spend the time learning to code in assembler unless you have a strong reason to. On the 8-pin processor, you made the processor choice with the intention that nothing but assembler would be used. Never make life so easy as assuming that assembler knowledge for a specific processor is a requirement to be a competent programmer. That just means that you have focused too narrowly on details. David Prentice said:
I would suggest a polite refusal would be more appropriate than dropping hints. I strongly disagree with this opinion. I have done quite a lot of projects in quite a number of fields. With your view, I would have to politely refuse helping with a very large number of questions. Any competent receiver would gain quite a lot from receiving knowledgeable hints. A big part of development is to recognize the bad solutions, and avoid them. Giving someone the hint that "what would happen if xx happens", can help someone to avoid falling into a deep pit, while at the same time helping them analyzing a problem and building the required knowledge to be able to find a solution on their own. When you were in school, the teacher didn't walk to each student and said that the answer to the math problem was 17. He/she instead pointed at a part of your equation and noted that you had an incorrect sign, or where doing an incorrect simplification. You don't gain knowledge without own work. And in the end, you do need that knowledge. The alternative to getting that knowledge is to be a buyer and pay for solutions. But even a buyer needs knowledge - without knowledge, you will not kwow what you buy or if the price is good or bad. |
| Topic | Author | Date |
| What's wrong with gimme code? | Murray R. Van Luyn | 06/15/09 23:24 |
| Mainly | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 00:33 |
| I agree with Jez Smith | Kiran V. Sutar | 06/16/09 01:49 |
| Non academic gimme code? | Murray R. Van Luyn | 06/16/09 02:41 |
| This makes me very suspicious | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 02:52 |
| gimme code=my own time is too valuable | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 03:34 |
| Easy to see which is school assignment | David Prentice | 06/16/09 03:54 |
| The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 04:24 |
| "Here's what I've come up with ... | Christoph Franck | 06/16/09 04:56 |
| But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton? | Jan Waclawek | 06/16/09 05:12 |
| The teacher recognises the good student | David Prentice | 06/16/09 05:33 |
| Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:35 |
| nothing IF ... | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 08:50 |
| children should do their own homework | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:32 |
| What's wrong with gimmee code. | Joseph Hebert | 06/16/09 00:44 |
| Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..? | Mahesh Joshi | 06/16/09 06:05 |
| perhaps it enables ... | David Prentice | 06/16/09 06:28 |
| Generic solutions applicable to more people | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 07:28 |
| Then they'll become expert at potty ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:37 |
| it makes you dumb! | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 08:42 |
| How'd you like ten of those guys working for you? | Richard Erlacher | 06/16/09 13:39 |
| But that's the point! | Kai Klaas | 06/17/09 08:39 |
| We agree in principle, Kai ... but ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:16 |
| Hiring & firing is expensive! | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 01:42 |
| and that's not all! | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 07:41 |
| As an example | Jez Smith | 06/16/09 15:17 |
| No-one is suggesting breach of copyright | David Prentice | 06/16/09 15:37 |
| arrogance? | Erik Malund | 06/16/09 15:48 |
| Examples of Erik's arrogance | Hans Heinz | 06/17/09 08:52 |
| no, I do not state any such, | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 09:15 |
| A couple of corrections | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:29 |
| more useful product? | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 12:30 |
| life is not B&W | Jan Waclawek | 06/16/09 15:53 |
| Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 16:47 |
| Votes and freedom of speech? | Per Westermark | 06/16/09 16:57 |
| When I was a youngster ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 02:01 |
| Returning to the original subject. | David Prentice | 06/17/09 02:24 |
| same same but sometimes different | Per Westermark | 06/17/09 02:57 |
| Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ... | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:43 |
| Versatility and diversification | Per Westermark | 06/17/09 02:52 |
| This is 8052.COM | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:35 |
| and..... | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 05:05 |
| There's always help for those who can do their own work. | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 01:40 |
| There's the key! | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 01:54 |
| that is not the issue | Erik Malund | 06/17/09 09:18 |
| I'm with you 100% on that, Erik | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 10:46 |
| calm down Richard | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 11:23 |
| support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful | Richard Erlacher | 06/17/09 16:26 |
| it? | Erik Malund | 06/18/09 08:44 |
| Which MCU's will KEIL support? | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 13:22 |
| Irrelevant | Per Westermark | 06/18/09 16:34 |
| Keil's blind spot | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 17:33 |
| Keil will probably get squeezed | Per Westermark | 06/18/09 17:50 |
| If only that were the case | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 22:49 |
| Portable 'C' [edited] | Andy Neil | 06/19/09 01:56 |
| Write what you mean or mean what you write | Per Westermark | 06/19/09 03:33 |
| OK ... Here's the point | Richard Erlacher | 06/19/09 16:13 |
| If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices | Per Westermark | 06/19/09 17:37 |
| C is not that difficult | David Prentice | 06/19/09 04:20 |
| I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree | Richard Erlacher | 06/19/09 19:27 |
| Richard misses the point completely | Jez Smith | 06/20/09 00:18 |
| The thing is... | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 17:08 |
| I don't think thats true at all | Jez Smith | 06/18/09 04:13 |
| Not what I meant | Andy Neil | 06/18/09 05:15 |
| Andy's right! | Richard Erlacher | 06/18/09 08:11 |
| elders and betters would have given a helpful reply. | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:15 |
| If you think 8052.com is bad ... | Andy Peters | 06/17/09 13:14 |
| When was it the last time someone asked for code? | Jan Waclawek | 06/17/09 15:56 |
| oohhh | Jez Smith | 06/17/09 16:04 |
| Here? | Andy Neil | 06/17/09 16:23 |
| Latest example of "Gimme Code" | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:01 |
| What the forums are all about | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/26/09 07:39 |
| Progress | Steve M. Taylor | 06/26/09 10:41 |
| No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities" | Per Westermark | 06/26/09 11:22 |
| patience | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:28 |
| inexperienced | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:16 |
| Well actually... | Steve M. Taylor | 06/27/09 09:44 |
| you must have a very smart wife | Erik Malund | 06/27/09 09:59 |
| If you're a friend ;-) | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/09 04:30 |
| arrogant? | Erik Malund | 06/26/09 13:44 |
| encouragement | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 06/27/09 08:34 |
| absolutely | Erik Malund | 06/27/09 09:05 |
| What you have to remember | Jez Smith | 06/27/09 22:30 |
| Tim Berners-Lee | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/09 04:33 |
| he only invented the web thingy | Jez Smith | 06/28/09 10:49 |
| Exhausted all the possibilities... | Per Westermark | 06/28/09 13:25 |
| this is just not fair | Jan Waclawek | 06/28/09 13:47 |
| It's about attitude | Per Westermark | 06/28/09 15:22 |
| on intentions etc. | Jan Waclawek | 06/28/09 16:27 |
| 98% of 100 | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 19:23 |
| good and bad | Erik Malund | 06/28/09 15:24 |
| OK Charles (et al), here's your chance! | Andy Neil | 06/28/09 18:58 |
| re: OK Charles here's your chance | CHARLES TOWNSEND | 07/02/09 07:44 |
| QED. | Andy Neil | 07/02/09 08:58 |
Yet one more exhausted visitor | Per Westermark | 07/03/09 02:40 |



