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Per Westermark
06/16/09 16:47
Read: 250 times
Sweden


 
Msg Score: +1
 +1 Good Answer/Helpful
#166163 - Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints
Responding to: Jan Waclawek's previous message
Richard said:
If you can't write your program in ASM, you don't know what you're doing. That doesn't mean a programmer shouldn't use HLL's, but it does mean he should know quite well what the resulting ASM should be. Trying to write a delay loop in a HLL is clear evidence of what a person doesn't know.

If you work as a software professional, you may have to support 10 different products using 5 different processor architectures. Some may have 8-pin microcontrollers with a couple of hundred bytes of flash. Some may run a full Linux system. With a full-blown GNU/Linux system on a PPC, you don't spend the time learning to code in assembler unless you have a strong reason to. On the 8-pin processor, you made the processor choice with the intention that nothing but assembler would be used.

Never make life so easy as assuming that assembler knowledge for a specific processor is a requirement to be a competent programmer. That just means that you have focused too narrowly on details.

David Prentice said:
I would suggest a polite refusal would be more appropriate than dropping hints.

I strongly disagree with this opinion. I have done quite a lot of projects in quite a number of fields. With your view, I would have to politely refuse helping with a very large number of questions.

Any competent receiver would gain quite a lot from receiving knowledgeable hints. A big part of development is to recognize the bad solutions, and avoid them. Giving someone the hint that "what would happen if xx happens", can help someone to avoid falling into a deep pit, while at the same time helping them analyzing a problem and building the required knowledge to be able to find a solution on their own.

When you were in school, the teacher didn't walk to each student and said that the answer to the math problem was 17. He/she instead pointed at a part of your equation and noted that you had an incorrect sign, or where doing an incorrect simplification. You don't gain knowledge without own work. And in the end, you do need that knowledge. The alternative to getting that knowledge is to be a buyer and pay for solutions. But even a buyer needs knowledge - without knowledge, you will not kwow what you buy or if the price is good or bad.


List of 95 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
What's wrong with gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/15/09 23:24      
   Mainly        Jez Smith      06/16/09 00:33      
      I agree with Jez Smith        Kiran V. Sutar      06/16/09 01:49      
         Non academic gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/16/09 02:41      
            This makes me very suspicious      Jez Smith      06/16/09 02:52      
            gimme code=my own time is too valuable      Per Westermark      06/16/09 03:34      
               Easy to see which is school assignment      David Prentice      06/16/09 03:54      
                  The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions      Per Westermark      06/16/09 04:24      
            "Here's what I've come up with ...      Christoph Franck      06/16/09 04:56      
               But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton?      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 05:12      
                  The teacher recognises the good student      David Prentice      06/16/09 05:33      
                     Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:35      
                  nothing IF ...      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:50      
            children should do their own homework      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:32      
   What's wrong with gimmee code.      Joseph Hebert      06/16/09 00:44      
   Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..?      Mahesh Joshi      06/16/09 06:05      
      perhaps it enables ...      David Prentice      06/16/09 06:28      
         Generic solutions applicable to more people      Per Westermark      06/16/09 07:28      
         Then they'll become expert at potty ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:37      
   it makes you dumb!      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:42      
   How'd you like ten of those guys working for you?        Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:39      
      But that's the point!      Kai Klaas      06/17/09 08:39      
         We agree in principle, Kai ... but ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:16      
         Hiring & firing is expensive!      Andy Neil      06/18/09 01:42      
            and that's not all!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 07:41      
   As an example      Jez Smith      06/16/09 15:17      
      No-one is suggesting breach of copyright      David Prentice      06/16/09 15:37      
         arrogance?      Erik Malund      06/16/09 15:48      
            Examples of Erik's arrogance        Hans Heinz      06/17/09 08:52      
               no, I do not state any such,      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:15      
                   A couple of corrections      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:29      
                     more useful product?      Erik Malund      06/17/09 12:30      
         life is not B&W      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 15:53      
            Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints        Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:47      
               Votes and freedom of speech?      Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:57      
               When I was a youngster ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 02:01      
                  Returning to the original subject.      David Prentice      06/17/09 02:24      
                     same same but sometimes different      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:57      
                     Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:43      
                  Versatility and diversification      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:52      
                     This is 8052.COM      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:35      
                  and.....        Jez Smith      06/17/09 05:05      
         There's always help for those who can do their own work.      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 01:40      
            There's the key!      Andy Neil      06/17/09 01:54      
         that is not the issue      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:18      
            I'm with you 100% on that, Erik      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:46      
               calm down Richard        Jez Smith      06/17/09 11:23      
                  support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 16:26      
                     it?      Erik Malund      06/18/09 08:44      
                        Which MCU's will KEIL support?      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 13:22      
                           Irrelevant      Per Westermark      06/18/09 16:34      
                              Keil's blind spot      Andy Neil      06/18/09 17:33      
                                 Keil will probably get squeezed      Per Westermark      06/18/09 17:50      
                              If only that were the case      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 22:49      
                                 Portable 'C' [edited]        Andy Neil      06/19/09 01:56      
                                 Write what you mean or mean what you write      Per Westermark      06/19/09 03:33      
                                    OK ... Here's the point      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 16:13      
                                       If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices      Per Westermark      06/19/09 17:37      
                                 C is not that difficult      David Prentice      06/19/09 04:20      
                                    I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 19:27      
                                    Richard misses the point completely        Jez Smith      06/20/09 00:18      
                  The thing is...      Andy Neil      06/17/09 17:08      
                     I don't think thats true at all      Jez Smith      06/18/09 04:13      
                        Not what I meant      Andy Neil      06/18/09 05:15      
                           Andy's right!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 08:11      
         elders and betters would have given a helpful reply.      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:15      
   If you think 8052.com is bad ...      Andy Peters      06/17/09 13:14      
   When was it the last time someone asked for code?      Jan Waclawek      06/17/09 15:56      
      oohhh      Jez Smith      06/17/09 16:04      
      Here?      Andy Neil      06/17/09 16:23      
      Latest example of "Gimme Code"      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:01      
   What the forums are all about        CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/26/09 07:39      
      Progress        Steve M. Taylor      06/26/09 10:41      
         No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities"        Per Westermark      06/26/09 11:22      
            patience      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:28      
         inexperienced      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:16      
            Well actually...      Steve M. Taylor      06/27/09 09:44      
               you must have a very smart wife      Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:59      
                  If you're a friend ;-)      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:30      
      arrogant?      Erik Malund      06/26/09 13:44      
         encouragement      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:34      
            absolutely        Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:05      
            What you have to remember        Jez Smith      06/27/09 22:30      
               Tim Berners-Lee      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:33      
                  he only invented the web thingy      Jez Smith      06/28/09 10:49      
                     Exhausted all the possibilities...      Per Westermark      06/28/09 13:25      
                        this is just not fair      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 13:47      
                           It's about attitude      Per Westermark      06/28/09 15:22      
                              on intentions etc.      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 16:27      
                              98% of 100      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:23      
                           good and bad      Erik Malund      06/28/09 15:24      
      OK Charles (et al), here's your chance!        Andy Neil      06/28/09 18:58      
         re: OK Charles here's your chance      CHARLES TOWNSEND      07/02/09 07:44      
            QED.      Andy Neil      07/02/09 08:58      
            Yet one more exhausted visitor      Per Westermark      07/03/09 02:40      

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