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Per Westermark
06/19/09 03:33
Read: 260 times
Sweden


 
#166244 - Write what you mean or mean what you write
Responding to: Richard Erlacher's previous message
Richard said:
What's irrelevant is the assumption that you've put forth, Per.

The assumption that you, when you mention PIC, Z80, M68HCxxx's, do mean what compiler to use when switching between architectures, and not what compiler to use for 8051?

What you did write was that Keil did not have compilers for a number of different architectures, and I noted that it was irrelevant if I had to switch compiler vendor when switching hardware architecture.

It does not matter a hoot what the SDCC or Keil C51 compiler do to access the chip-specific parts of a 8051 chip or what their individual code-generation looks like if I switch to a Z80. Even if Keil did have a Z80 or PIC compiler, I could just as well select a Z80 (or PIC) compiler from someone else - the learning step would have been similar anyway.

Switching C compilers is not a big issue under the assumption that the developer is competent in C.

The thing you do not want to do is to switch vendor (or even compiler version) for an already released product unless you have a very strong need to, since a compiler change for the same product (implying the same architecture) would lead to a new read-through of the assembler output and a new review of all test cases to make sure that they are relevant. Such a tool replacement would also often require that a number of certification reports from notified bodies would be invalidated because the used tools are often part of the documentation for the certification process.

The above is not relevant when switching to a new architecture, since that would represent a new product anyway, so whatever compiler that would be used would require a full analysis from scratch.

You are often talking about being competent in assembler. But as soon as you start talking about different C compilers, you must assume competence with C. It is irrelevant what problems a bungler with C will have.

List of 95 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
What's wrong with gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/15/09 23:24      
   Mainly        Jez Smith      06/16/09 00:33      
      I agree with Jez Smith        Kiran V. Sutar      06/16/09 01:49      
         Non academic gimme code?      Murray R. Van Luyn      06/16/09 02:41      
            This makes me very suspicious      Jez Smith      06/16/09 02:52      
            gimme code=my own time is too valuable      Per Westermark      06/16/09 03:34      
               Easy to see which is school assignment      David Prentice      06/16/09 03:54      
                  The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions      Per Westermark      06/16/09 04:24      
            "Here's what I've come up with ...      Christoph Franck      06/16/09 04:56      
               But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton?      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 05:12      
                  The teacher recognises the good student      David Prentice      06/16/09 05:33      
                     Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:35      
                  nothing IF ...      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:50      
            children should do their own homework      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:32      
   What's wrong with gimmee code.      Joseph Hebert      06/16/09 00:44      
   Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..?      Mahesh Joshi      06/16/09 06:05      
      perhaps it enables ...      David Prentice      06/16/09 06:28      
         Generic solutions applicable to more people      Per Westermark      06/16/09 07:28      
         Then they'll become expert at potty ...      Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:37      
   it makes you dumb!      Erik Malund      06/16/09 08:42      
   How'd you like ten of those guys working for you?        Richard Erlacher      06/16/09 13:39      
      But that's the point!      Kai Klaas      06/17/09 08:39      
         We agree in principle, Kai ... but ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:16      
         Hiring & firing is expensive!      Andy Neil      06/18/09 01:42      
            and that's not all!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 07:41      
   As an example      Jez Smith      06/16/09 15:17      
      No-one is suggesting breach of copyright      David Prentice      06/16/09 15:37      
         arrogance?      Erik Malund      06/16/09 15:48      
            Examples of Erik's arrogance        Hans Heinz      06/17/09 08:52      
               no, I do not state any such,      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:15      
                   A couple of corrections      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:29      
                     more useful product?      Erik Malund      06/17/09 12:30      
         life is not B&W      Jan Waclawek      06/16/09 15:53      
            Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints        Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:47      
               Votes and freedom of speech?      Per Westermark      06/16/09 16:57      
               When I was a youngster ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 02:01      
                  Returning to the original subject.      David Prentice      06/17/09 02:24      
                     same same but sometimes different      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:57      
                     Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ...      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:43      
                  Versatility and diversification      Per Westermark      06/17/09 02:52      
                     This is 8052.COM      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:35      
                  and.....        Jez Smith      06/17/09 05:05      
         There's always help for those who can do their own work.      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 01:40      
            There's the key!      Andy Neil      06/17/09 01:54      
         that is not the issue      Erik Malund      06/17/09 09:18      
            I'm with you 100% on that, Erik      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 10:46      
               calm down Richard        Jez Smith      06/17/09 11:23      
                  support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful      Richard Erlacher      06/17/09 16:26      
                     it?      Erik Malund      06/18/09 08:44      
                        Which MCU's will KEIL support?      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 13:22      
                           Irrelevant      Per Westermark      06/18/09 16:34      
                              Keil's blind spot      Andy Neil      06/18/09 17:33      
                                 Keil will probably get squeezed      Per Westermark      06/18/09 17:50      
                              If only that were the case      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 22:49      
                                 Portable 'C' [edited]        Andy Neil      06/19/09 01:56      
                                 Write what you mean or mean what you write      Per Westermark      06/19/09 03:33      
                                    OK ... Here's the point      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 16:13      
                                       If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices      Per Westermark      06/19/09 17:37      
                                 C is not that difficult      David Prentice      06/19/09 04:20      
                                    I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree      Richard Erlacher      06/19/09 19:27      
                                    Richard misses the point completely        Jez Smith      06/20/09 00:18      
                  The thing is...      Andy Neil      06/17/09 17:08      
                     I don't think thats true at all      Jez Smith      06/18/09 04:13      
                        Not what I meant      Andy Neil      06/18/09 05:15      
                           Andy's right!      Richard Erlacher      06/18/09 08:11      
         elders and betters would have given a helpful reply.      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:15      
   If you think 8052.com is bad ...      Andy Peters      06/17/09 13:14      
   When was it the last time someone asked for code?      Jan Waclawek      06/17/09 15:56      
      oohhh      Jez Smith      06/17/09 16:04      
      Here?      Andy Neil      06/17/09 16:23      
      Latest example of "Gimme Code"      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:01      
   What the forums are all about        CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/26/09 07:39      
      Progress        Steve M. Taylor      06/26/09 10:41      
         No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities"        Per Westermark      06/26/09 11:22      
            patience      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:28      
         inexperienced      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:16      
            Well actually...      Steve M. Taylor      06/27/09 09:44      
               you must have a very smart wife      Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:59      
                  If you're a friend ;-)      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:30      
      arrogant?      Erik Malund      06/26/09 13:44      
         encouragement      CHARLES TOWNSEND      06/27/09 08:34      
            absolutely        Erik Malund      06/27/09 09:05      
            What you have to remember        Jez Smith      06/27/09 22:30      
               Tim Berners-Lee      Steve M. Taylor      06/28/09 04:33      
                  he only invented the web thingy      Jez Smith      06/28/09 10:49      
                     Exhausted all the possibilities...      Per Westermark      06/28/09 13:25      
                        this is just not fair      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 13:47      
                           It's about attitude      Per Westermark      06/28/09 15:22      
                              on intentions etc.      Jan Waclawek      06/28/09 16:27      
                              98% of 100      Andy Neil      06/28/09 19:23      
                           good and bad      Erik Malund      06/28/09 15:24      
      OK Charles (et al), here's your chance!        Andy Neil      06/28/09 18:58      
         re: OK Charles here's your chance      CHARLES TOWNSEND      07/02/09 07:44      
            QED.      Andy Neil      07/02/09 08:58      
            Yet one more exhausted visitor      Per Westermark      07/03/09 02:40      

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