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Per Westermark
11/22/11 08:05
Read: 543 times
Sweden


 
Msg Score: +2
 +2 Good Answer/Helpful
#184854 - Not true
Responding to: Richard Erlacher's previous message
No, Richard. That is not true.

Lots of commercial vendors have release plans for additional bug-fix releases besides the main releases.

But since they are a commercial operation with commercial salaries, they can't take the support costs by sending out any daily builds.

But take Keil as an example. If you have a problem with a bug, you can contact them. And then you get a link where you can download a fixed version. If the bug is serious and likely to affect lots of customers, then they will replace their last main relese with the bug fix. In other cases, they will only supply the link to the bug fix to individual customers.

When you spend time complaining about commercial vendors releasing too few bug fixes, you should also mention the sad fact that the majority of support issues they receive are user errors. So the largest part of the time of the support staff is wasted on helping customers who haven't either the skill to do what they are doing, or the interest in reading already published information about the product they have payed the licese fee for.

Interesting thing here - how can you say that it isn't pertty that the vendors are for the most part trying to make money? Tell me the reason for investing money in a commercial company, if the goal is not to get a return on the investment? Good companies - and the world is full of them - knows that a returning customer is worth more than a once-off customer because of the large cost on marketing, etc, to locate new customers and then get them to take the step and buy.

Let's turn everything around - did you run your company without an interest in making money? You just felt you had 30 years of your life you had to spend somehow, and that the only reason to start a company was that your customers (who you wanted to donate your time to) would require you to have a company just for the paper trail?

You have oppinions of lots of companies, even when you are not a paying customer and don't know what level of support paying customers do receive from the compaines you complain about. But this is no difference from you complaining about companies, based on situations that happened 20 years ago and by people who most probably do not work there anymore. You are generalizing, just as you are generalizing that people with long hair are stupid and people who listen to music while programming are lazy bastards that should be thrown out the door.

I have contacted Keil support. I have received quite quick responses. I have received access to fixed releases based on my reports. And said fixes have then made it into the next ordinary release for general access. That really is the way to go for a commercial company. I get a fixed program, but are indirectly asked to be a beta-tester of the fix. The fix goes mainstream a couple of months later, when it's known that it solves the problem without showing indications to break something else.

"Free" software can publish daily builds because they haven't invested as much money into their names. And they normally have standard releases too that they try to push out as main route for users. Just because it takes a lot of skill and experience from users to use daily builds and recognize that it might be a good build, but could just as well be a dud with very unexpected problems hidden below the surface.

List of 39 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Keil problem...      Lukas Valecky      11/10/11 03:53      
   Kel support      Per Westermark      11/10/11 05:41      
      Keil support      Erik Malund      11/10/11 06:49      
         Reward for finding bug      Bert Van Den Berg      11/10/11 10:27      
            been tried      Erik Malund      11/10/11 10:51      
               public bug tracker      Maarten Brock      11/11/11 01:09      
                  It's not a KEIL-specific problem ...      Richard Erlacher      11/21/11 11:18      
                     not really      Maarten Brock      11/22/11 03:56      
                        It's those "snapshots" that I meant      Richard Erlacher      11/22/11 07:49      
                           Not true        Per Westermark      11/22/11 08:05      
                              Remember, where you sit determines what you see      Richard Erlacher      11/22/11 22:18      
                                 Concept      Per Westermark      11/23/11 02:11      
                                 I do not ...      Erik Malund      11/23/11 07:04      
                                    Comfort contra mobile phone      Per Westermark      11/23/11 08:30      
                                       Where you sit determines what you see ...      Richard Erlacher      11/24/11 00:58      
                                          You are still assuming you know what other people think/do        Per Westermark      11/24/11 02:49      
                                             You've overlooked the most basic fact ...      Richard Erlacher      11/24/11 16:31      
                                                Unuseful toy?      Per Westermark      11/24/11 17:18      
                                                   Once again, you've missed the point ...      Richard Erlacher      11/26/11 08:46      
                                                      Look for progress, instead of just looking back at history      Per Westermark      11/26/11 10:36      
                                                         are you that lucky?      Erik Malund      11/26/11 10:46      
                                                            Yes      Per Westermark      11/26/11 11:17      
                                                         Consider my position      Richard Erlacher      11/27/11 00:26      
      keil update      Lukas Valecky      11/10/11 07:47      
         auto variables      Per Westermark      11/10/11 08:24      
   Global Variable Initiaization      Michael Karas      11/10/11 06:40      
   just curious      Erik Malund      11/10/11 07:53      
      Always good to hide black-box data in structs      Per Westermark      11/10/11 08:19      
      Initialising array inside struct      Oliver Sedlacek      11/11/11 01:48      
         not necessarily      Jan Waclawek      11/11/11 02:10      
      Library      Lukas Valecky      11/11/11 05:00      
   New facts...      Lukas Valecky      11/11/11 06:35      
      At the very least use static for one-time initialized locals      Per Westermark      11/11/11 06:49      
         it works! thanks...      Lukas Valecky      11/15/11 11:36      
            Look at code in Debugger. It will tell all.      Michael Karas      11/15/11 12:19      
               It's called "Overlaying"      Andy Neil      11/15/11 15:00      
                  Optimization      Per Westermark      11/15/11 15:34      
      are you sure ...      Erik Malund      11/11/11 06:51      
   Thanks...      Lukas Valecky      11/21/11 10:55      

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