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Richard Erlacher
02/15/12 21:46
Read: 650 times
Denver, Co
USA


 
#186006 - Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy
Responding to: Erik Malund's previous message
Erik Malund said:
I don't find ASM as difficult to debug as HLL ...

I don't maintain that ASM coupled with ULTRAMON51 is the only or even the best way to do production work, but it's a very straightforward way to develop hobby projects, and it doesn't cost a semester's tuition.
neither does a SILabs toolstick ($12 if I recall)

True enough, but what does one learn about the basics of the 805x core from using that device?

I doubt Andy or Erik would have easily succeeded plowing up new ground with HLL if they hadn't already possessed a firm knowledge of the 805x core
the same is true for "plowing up new ground with asm"

Erik

When starting with a new MCU, that "new ground" has to be plowed up anyway, and I find ASM inherently easier, since it is bound to the core. HLL is a step or two away (depending on which HLL) and when dealing with ASM you deal only with information that you'd have to have under your belt when using 'C' or Pascal, else you'd run into various difficulties almost right away. Do the SiLabs parts all have a completely standard 805x core, including UART and parallel ports on power-up? They certainly require some additional setup if you want to use any of their "features" not that you'd have to do that.

I'm still persuaded that using a 1985 or earlier i8752 would be very easy, though those antiques are quite costly. There'd be no misgivings about whether the features are standard, though.

Hopefully the O/P has taken to reading lots of spec's, and maybe attempting to understand the instruction set and SFR/hardware interactions with it. Once he gets that into his head, he'll be on his way, regardless of which "small" chip he ends up using in his project. The old-standard 5-volt 40-pin DIL-packaged chips are still the easiest to use when learning, methinks.

RE









List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Which modern small 8051 should I use?      Scott Navarre      02/11/12 15:08      
   addition      Scott Navarre      02/11/12 16:02      
      contradicting yourself.      Erik Malund      02/11/12 16:45      
      Get on with SiLabs        Michael Karas      02/11/12 20:55      
         Thanks for all of your input!      Scott Navarre      02/12/12 17:24      
            power miser      Erik Malund      02/12/12 19:15      
               Re: Power Miser      Scott Navarre      02/16/12 02:48      
            Still Need the SiLabs Adapter      Michael Karas      02/12/12 19:15      
      Why?        Richard Erlacher      02/11/12 23:38      
   RE: 8-bit 8051      Andy Neil      02/12/12 02:01      
      SiLabs is sometimes a bit slow ...      Richard Erlacher      02/12/12 10:25      
         RE: "slow"?      Andy Neil      02/12/12 10:45      
            Well ... It might have been coincidental ...      Richard Erlacher      02/12/12 17:57      
   AT89S2051/4051 or ATLP2052/4052      Jan Waclawek      02/13/12 02:17      
      and lose all the goodies      Erik Malund      02/13/12 06:54      
         Onewire debug?      Per Westermark      02/13/12 07:22      
            tradeoffs      Jan Waclawek      02/13/12 07:43      
               Is a hobbyist not extremely likely to gain      Erik Malund      02/13/12 07:51      
                  JTAG      Per Westermark      02/13/12 08:04      
                     cost to debug      Andy Peters      02/13/12 09:44      
                        cost of AVR debugging "dongle"      Jan Waclawek      02/13/12 11:14      
                  You have to ask yourself ...      Richard Erlacher      02/13/12 08:07      
                     Beginners have even more reason for debug cells, i.e. ICE        Per Westermark      02/13/12 09:34      
                     WHAT, exactly, is a hobbyist likely to gain from built-in de      Andy Neil      02/13/12 10:48      
                        I still think it 6 one way and half-a-dozen the other      Richard Erlacher      02/13/12 21:37      
                           why go old fashioned      Erik Malund      02/14/12 07:29      
                              Where you sit determines what you see.      Richard Erlacher      02/14/12 08:00      
                     exactly this        Erik Malund      02/13/12 11:10      
                        Those are all things the monitor allows      Richard Erlacher      02/13/12 21:38      
                           please explain how the monitor allows ...      Erik Malund      02/14/12 07:37      
                              Monitors really not good choice for new designs/developers      Per Westermark      02/14/12 07:51      
                                 Describing Richards preferences      Erik Malund      02/14/12 08:16      
                              It doesn't help with 'C' code at all      Richard Erlacher      02/14/12 08:10      
                                 maybe not using that word      Erik Malund      02/14/12 08:19      
                     "Small" 8051      Scott Navarre      02/14/12 08:38      
                        RE: "Small" 8051      Andy Neil      02/14/12 09:15      
                        Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too        Per Westermark      02/14/12 09:28      
                        the calculation      Erik Malund      02/14/12 09:39      
                           True cost comes in maintainance      Per Westermark      02/14/12 09:56      
                              I totally agree, however      Erik Malund      02/14/12 10:06      
                           Ratio?      Andy Neil      02/14/12 11:02      
                              all numbers are arbitrary      Erik Malund      02/14/12 11:26      
                                 but it's good to be ...      Andy Neil      02/14/12 12:43      
                                    Not needed      Per Westermark      02/14/12 13:29      
                              A couple of things ...      Richard Erlacher      02/14/12 21:21      
                                 RE: A couple of things ...      Andy Neil      02/15/12 00:52      
                                 neither does a SILabs toolstick      Erik Malund      02/15/12 09:34      
                                    Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy      Richard Erlacher      02/15/12 21:46      
                                       Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs      Per Westermark      02/16/12 02:54      
                                       only somewhat true      Erik Malund      02/16/12 07:21      
                        First, Define Icc and Code Size Targets      Jim Granville      02/15/12 03:00      
                           It's more complicated than that      Andy Neil      02/15/12 04:55      
                           that is not enough      Erik Malund      02/15/12 09:42      
                              that is not enough      Jim Granville      02/15/12 13:30      
                                 which was what I posted      Erik Malund      02/15/12 13:49      
                                    ROFL      Jim Granville      02/15/12 14:52      
                                    Not a simple formula!      Andy Neil      02/15/12 16:03      
                  power      Jan Waclawek      02/13/12 08:12      
                     OCD != Emulation        Andy Neil      02/13/12 10:31      
               the particular hobbyist in question      Andy Neil      02/13/12 10:42      
                  It does allow him to maintain separation from the hardware      Richard Erlacher      02/13/12 21:41      

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