| Kai Klaas 06/29/05 06:26 Modified: 06/29/05 06:33 Read: 1118 times Germany |
#96180 - Theoretical work missed Responding to: Stanley Lio's previous message |
Stanley said:
This is the circuit. Any mistake or improvment? Use 1k and 100k instead of 10k and 1M in the feedback of first LM318. Use 1k and 47k instead of 10k and 470k in the feedback of second LM318. Use 22R + 100µF + 100nF in each supply voltage line to each LM318. Connect a 10k resistor from input of second LM318 to ground. Remove first diode, use 4k7 resistor instead. Remove 10k resistor at second diode, use 47k instead. Connect the cathode of second diode to inverting input of LM339, not to non-inverting input. Connect the poti to non-inverting input. Connect 1M resistor from non-inverting input to output of LM339. Remove 10k resistor at output, use 4k7 instead. I don't understand how you calculate and conclude that the LM324 can't have a high gain at 40kHz. Something relate to the frequency response? Sorry, but I have to state this: It's time that you have a look into a textbook about OPamps, because you ask this question over and over again and make the same mistakes. Designing a circuit needs two things to do, theoretical work and practical work. But you totally omit the theoretical work! For properly working with OPamps there's a minimum of theoretical knowledge needed! Most Opamps have a maximum gain called 'open loop gain', that is frequency dependent. At unity gain bandwidth the maximum achievable gain is 1 and increases by about 20dB with decreasing frequency by one decade. So, LM324 showing a unity gain bandwidth of 1MHz has a maximum gain of 10 at 100kHz and 100 at 10kHz. At 40KHz the maximum gain is 25. So, you can theoretically achieve a maximum gain of 25 at 40kHz. But, as most OPamps are very unlinear, which is especially true for LM324 you need a certain gain reserve called 'loop gain' to increase the linearity. A gain reserve of at least 10 is needed for most applications. So, this gives you a maximum gain of your circuit called 'closed loop gain' of 25/10 = 2.5 for LM324 at 40kHz!! In applications, where the linearity of gain is not so demanding, especially if only a simple detection of a carrier is needed, then 'closed loop gain' can be increased a little bit, means 'loop gain' can be decreased a little bit. But take care, there's no much headroom for doing this, because there are many negative effects with this, like increased risk of instability and so forth. Kai |
| Topic | Author | Date |
| Ultrasonic Signal Processing | Stanley Lio | 06/10/05 08:11 |
| Time dependant gain | Jez Smith | 06/10/05 08:29 |
| Further attenuation... | Andy Neil | 06/13/05 15:39 |
| Signal recovery. | Steve M. Taylor | 06/10/05 10:11 |
| AGC? | Stanley Lio | 06/10/05 19:25 |
| AGC as Steve said// | Payam Soltany | 06/10/05 10:49 |
| My Algorithm was: | Mehdi | 06/10/05 11:11 |
| My Algorithm was: | Mehdi | 06/10/05 22:08 |
| Ultrasonic Ranging | Mahmood Elnasser | 06/10/05 11:46 |
| Matched filter on the rescue | Enrique Viseras-marin | 06/10/05 13:25 |
| matched filters | Jez Smith | 06/10/05 14:36 |
| Phase locked amplifier | Steve M. Taylor | 06/10/05 15:04 |
| Its a different thing | Jez Smith | 06/11/05 01:41 |
| Ah | Steve M. Taylor | 06/11/05 05:35 |
| Thats the one.... | Jez Smith | 06/11/05 07:47 |
| Clever woman | Steve M. Taylor | 06/11/05 12:15 |
| Just an idea | Enrique Viseras-marin | 06/10/05 16:06 |
| The scope plot tells it all! | Kai Klaas | 06/10/05 17:43 |
| Largest signal | Stanley Lio | 06/10/05 19:24 |
| 'Greatest' echo is the wrong criterion! | Kai Klaas | 06/11/05 03:31 |
| | Stanley Lio | 06/11/05 03:47 |
| somehow I remember... | Stanley Lio | 06/11/05 07:47 |
| No, no... | Kai Klaas | 06/13/05 10:22 |
| Oops~ forgot... | Stanley Lio | 06/14/05 00:50 |
| the product | Stanley Lio | 06/10/05 19:40 |
| Power of transmission pulse | Mehdi | 06/10/05 22:41 |
| Preamp circuit Here | Stanley Lio | 06/11/05 03:52 |
| Add caps to remove base line noise | Kai Klaas | 06/11/05 03:58 |
| Another potential problem... | Musharraf Hanif | 06/11/05 06:32 |
| Problem with ADC? | Musharraf Hanif | 06/11/05 06:12 |
| possible solution to the ADC problem | Musharraf Hanif | 06/11/05 06:52 |
| Ok~ | Stanley Lio | 06/11/05 07:39 |
| Debug Result | Stanley Lio | 06/13/05 07:38 |
| ADC Sampling and code debugging | Mahmood Elnasser | 06/13/05 13:01 |
| sampling time | Stanley Lio | 06/14/05 00:53 |
| Adc for Ultrasonic? | Reza Javan | 06/14/05 01:22 |
| Next, comes to "average" | Stanley Lio | 06/20/05 21:05 |
| Why use the adc? | Russell Bull | 06/20/05 21:42 |
| Forgot to tell... | Stanley Lio | 06/21/05 00:07 |
| Circle in RED | Stanley Lio | 06/21/05 00:37 |
| Asking for help again - Filter | Stanley Lio | 06/22/05 05:20 |
| Notch | Steve M. Taylor | 06/22/05 06:05 |
| I don't know | Stanley Lio | 06/22/05 08:38 |
| DSP | Mahmood Elnasser | 06/22/05 14:38 |
| Nah | Steve M. Taylor | 06/22/05 14:39 |
| for the sake of learning | Mahmood Elnasser | 06/22/05 14:42 |
| so | Steve M. Taylor | 06/22/05 16:13 |
| I agree | Mahmood Elnasser | 06/23/05 00:13 |
| Amplitude | Stanley Lio | 06/22/05 20:23 |
| Op amps | Steve M. Taylor | 06/23/05 03:08 |
| 100pF | Stanley Lio | 06/23/05 07:32 |
| bypass ?? | Steve M. Taylor | 06/23/05 07:47 |
| Yes | Stanley Lio | 06/23/05 07:55 |
| No sort of bypass | Steve M. Taylor | 06/23/05 08:08 |
| BTE054 BTE054USS2 | Stanley Lio | 06/23/05 08:18 |
| Better noise control | Steve M. Taylor | 06/23/05 09:22 |
| re: BTE054 | Jacob Boyce | 06/23/05 13:29 |
| Replace LMV6032 with LM324 | Stanley Lio | 06/23/05 19:40 |
| re:low sensitivity | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 07:18 |
| re:no filtering | Jacob Boyce | 06/23/05 13:37 |
| Note | Steve M. Taylor | 06/23/05 14:27 |
| Notch filter? | Stanley Lio | 06/23/05 19:46 |
| No, | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 04:16 |
| Bandpass | Kai Klaas | 06/23/05 17:31 |
| NOT a criticism | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 04:19 |
| Update... | Kai Klaas | 06/24/05 07:02 |
| Umm... Nowadays? | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 07:15 |
| Op amp parameters | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 07:27 |
| "Filters for Dummy" | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 07:34 |
| Have you tried it with ..... | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 07:47 |
| Yes, I've tried it and it works well | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 09:58 |
| Basic electronics | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 10:06 |
| 0.002uF -> 3300uF | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 10:15 |
| re:noise | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 10:29 |
| Exactly the same | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 10:44 |
| test of signal | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 11:08 |
| It's over 1.2m | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 19:49 |
| TWO bypass caps. | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 11:05 |
| Two were found | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 10:47 |
| Usenet | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 11:17 |
| Why using a PLL, when a bandpass can ... | Kai Klaas | 06/24/05 11:06 |
| which is why ,,,, | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 11:13 |
| Not sure what you meant.. | Kai Klaas | 06/24/05 12:16 |
| Already | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 20:11 |
| But it MUST work properly!! | Kai Klaas | 06/25/05 04:21 |
| Circuit here | Stanley Lio | 06/25/05 05:45 |
| Op-amp to replace LM324 | Stanley Lio | 06/25/05 06:20 |
| Non-inverting Input Voltage Divider | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 06:08 |
| LM567 | Stanley Lio | 06/24/05 07:19 |
| re:LM324 | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 08:25 |
| re:wrong link | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 08:28 |
| No AGC | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 09:37 |
| AGC | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 09:48 |
| Yes | Steve M. Taylor | 06/24/05 09:51 |
| re: no AGC | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 10:10 |
| LMC6032 is much more linear than LM324 | Kai Klaas | 06/24/05 11:24 |
| re: | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 11:29 |
| re:attenuation of signal | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 11:42 |
| Good ones and bad ones | Kai Klaas | 06/24/05 12:23 |
| another article of interest | Jacob Boyce | 06/24/05 12:07 |
| tramsmit & receive | Reza Javan | 06/25/05 02:45 |
| how to measure the distance perfectly? | Pradono Antyanto | 06/26/05 08:26 |
| Fatal Error! | Mehdi | 06/26/05 09:25 |
| How about this one.... | Pradono Antyanto | 06/27/05 02:04 |
| Ultrasonic Detection Code! | Mehdi | 06/27/05 04:21 |
| is that right? | Erik Malund | 06/27/05 11:57 |
| Not right,,,,, | Michael Karas | 06/27/05 12:20 |
| Thanks! | Mehdi | 06/27/05 19:44 |
| another missing! | Mehdi | 06/27/05 19:55 |
| i'll try it.. | Pradono Antyanto | 06/28/05 05:08 |
| Some Applications of ultrasonic | Reza Javan | 06/25/05 02:49 |
| "Op amps for everyone" | Stanley Lio | 06/25/05 06:24 |
| woo... tiring trip | Stanley Lio | 06/26/05 04:55 |
| Check this one | Kai Klaas | 06/26/05 17:04 |
| Thanks | Stanley Lio | 06/26/05 19:52 |
| is it not fundamentally wrong | Erik Malund | 06/27/05 12:01 |
| Both | Stanley Lio | 06/27/05 18:09 |
| I knew that... | Kai Klaas | 06/28/05 05:16 |
| Synthetic grounds | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/05 06:24 |
| no, Kai | Erik Malund | 06/28/05 06:30 |
| Steve, Erik | Kai Klaas | 06/28/05 07:05 |
| The circuit works, but... | Stanley Lio | 06/27/05 22:08 |
| Moral | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/05 05:15 |
| Puh, what antennas... | Kai Klaas | 06/28/05 05:41 |
| Which means I can't use breadboard | Stanley Lio | 06/28/05 07:54 |
| In one word. | Steve M. Taylor | 06/28/05 07:55 |
| Using the LM318 | Stanley Lio | 06/28/05 22:19 |
| Missing 10K | Jerson Fernandes | 06/29/05 02:23 |
| More caps | Steve M. Taylor | 06/29/05 03:18 |
| Where? | Stanley Lio | 06/29/05 05:53 |
| Parallel | Jerson Fernandes | 06/30/05 06:37 |
| Does it work now? | Kai Klaas | 07/01/05 07:43 |
| Yes, it works fine | Stanley Lio | 07/02/05 02:26 |
| Theoretical work missed | Kai Klaas | 06/29/05 06:26 |
| Fatal Error! | Mehdi | 06/26/05 09:24 |
| Another article to peruse | Russell Bull | 06/27/05 01:19 |
| Another one... | Kai Klaas | 06/27/05 04:31 |
| same application | Mehdi | 06/27/05 06:47 |
| Sorry | Kai Klaas | 06/27/05 07:56 |
| Why sorry? | Mehdi | 06/27/05 08:31 |
| That's exactly what I want to do | Stanley Lio | 06/27/05 18:18 |
| which one is the best way? | Pradono Antyanto | 07/11/05 04:39 |
| Capacitors | Steve M. Taylor | 07/11/05 04:53 |
| i've got it | Pradono Antyanto | 07/11/05 05:10 |
| not the best solution | Benjamin Damet | 07/01/05 08:09 |
| Laser ranging | Steve M. Taylor | 07/01/05 14:59 |
| how much | Stanley Lio | 07/02/05 02:30 |
| I've withdrawn from the competition | Stanley Lio | 07/02/05 03:00 |
| NOT finance | Steve M. Taylor | 07/02/05 03:44 |
| Re: money is not everything | Stanley Lio | 07/02/05 09:38 |
| Good Luck | Raghunathan | 07/02/05 18:20 |
| good luck | James Hinnant | 07/03/05 00:58 |
| Good luck | Steve M. Taylor | 07/03/05 05:34 |
| Thanks! | Stanley Lio | 07/03/05 06:34 |
| The noise again | Pradono Antyanto | 07/12/05 05:01 |
| re:link | Jacob Boyce | 07/12/05 06:46 |
| Link | Stanley Lio | 07/12/05 09:20 |
| this is the link | Pradono Antyanto | 07/12/05 09:24 |
| re:noise | Jacob Boyce | 07/12/05 12:02 |
| 5-14 Khz | Pradono Antyanto | 07/12/05 12:56 |
| re:5-14kHz | Jacob Boyce | 07/12/05 13:02 |
| The Noise Amplitude | Pradono Antyanto | 07/12/05 13:13 |
| gain | Jacob Boyce | 07/12/05 14:19 |
| the problem is gain | Pradono Antyanto | 07/12/05 14:38 |
| Schematic | Kai Klaas | 07/13/05 17:29 |
| Thank You but... | Pradono Antyanto | 07/14/05 00:26 |
| Thank You but... | Pradono Antyanto | 07/14/05 00:36 |
| 1/4Watt is enough | Kai Klaas | 07/14/05 05:03 |
| Simulation result | Pradono Antyanto | 07/14/05 05:31 |
| Strange plots... | Kai Klaas | 07/14/05 07:09 |
| How about Compensation? | Pradono Antyanto | 07/15/05 00:24 |
| Not needed | Kai Klaas | 07/15/05 04:33 |
| Bigger Pulse | Pradono Antyanto | 07/30/05 05:35 |
| Bridge configuration can help | Kai Klaas | 07/30/05 10:46 |
| The same circuit but... | Pradono Antyanto | 07/30/05 22:52 |
| ...but much stronger | Kai Klaas | 07/31/05 05:02 |
| I have tried | Pradono Antyanto | 07/31/05 07:42 |
| What do you mean by ripple? | Kai Klaas | 08/01/05 07:37 |
| The ripple | Pradono Antyanto | 08/02/05 08:42 |
| No, it is not. The output from a logic | Erik Malund | 08/02/05 08:48 |
| Answer | Kai Klaas | 08/02/05 09:00 |
| Yup Kai | Pradono Antyanto | 08/02/05 09:06 |
| It's to adjust oscillating frequency | Kai Klaas | 08/03/05 07:10 |
Finished | Pradono Antyanto | 08/03/05 23:59 |
| Exams VS academic | Li Wk | 07/16/05 08:24 |
| "Plan B" | Stanley Lio | 07/17/05 05:09 |
| Universities in HongKong | Li Wk | 07/30/05 20:03 |



