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Per Westermark
03/11/12 06:49
Read: 579 times
Sweden


 
#186575 - Sounds like you expect an infinite acceleration
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Justin Fontes said:
You cannot stay at the same RPM and same force applied to the pedals unless the power changes.

I'm not sure I follow what you tried to say.

Going on flat road, you have a "medium" gear selected. So your constant RPM * constant torque give you a "medium" speed where lots of the power is consumed to overcome the wind factor and a quite small part of the power overcomes other losses.

Going uphill, you have a "light" gear selected. So your constant RPM * constant torque gives you a "low" speed where the absolute majority of the power is used to accumulate potential energy, with hardly any wind resistance to overcome.

Going downhill, you have a "heavy" gear selected. The wind drag to overcome is tremendous, but you get lots of extra power from the "consumption" of potential energy. This extra power not visibile in the torque*RPM measurement. But not really relevant either, if the goal is to measure the amount of work the rider does. That power was already accounted for during the uphill ride.

So in the end, you don't suffer the problem that a constant power applied gives a constant acceleration and hence a constant increase in RPM. You will quickly reach a balance where drag + potential energy matches the riders efforts.

If anyone would think it interesting to figure out amount of power that was accumulated/consumed when climbing/going downhill, the rider+bike weight can be measured before start and a height sensor can be used. Normally a simple air pressure sensor works quite well since the air pressure isn't changing so fast from shifts in weather. GPS sensors often have significant problems to measure height differences - they are designed for precise position in latitude + longitude - not in height.

Anyone - commercial solutions (lots of them) are very expensive so there are lots of reasons for attempting DIY variants.

I wonder if anyone have cracked the protocol Polar used for their chain sensor solution - it receives the data using two electrodes on the pulse meter. Would be nice if I could feed data to these electrodes and have the software covered :)

Anyway - I do have a program that takes power info from the indoor cycle simulator and modifies the Polar pulse file with power information.


List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
bikey design challenge      Jez Smith      03/09/12 12:14      
   Only 400W?      Per Westermark      03/09/12 12:23      
      Its a bit different on the road      Jez Smith      03/09/12 12:34      
         Brilliant idea in the bath      Jez Smith      03/09/12 13:35      
            Might work      Per Westermark      03/09/12 13:51      
               well...      Jez Smith      03/09/12 14:33      
                  So you are yourself saying 400W is a bit low max scale      Per Westermark      03/09/12 14:43      
                     O.K then 500 watts      Jez Smith      03/10/12 00:56      
                        Battery      Per Westermark      03/10/12 05:11      
            Fun with strain gauges      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 05:57      
         You sure?      Per Westermark      03/09/12 13:48      
   nice ride      Andy Peters      03/09/12 14:31      
      fanks      Jez Smith      03/10/12 00:54      
   Sigma Rox 9.1...      Kai Klaas      03/10/12 09:59      
      Sigma fake      Per Westermark      03/10/12 11:07      
         What do you expect for that price?      Kai Klaas      03/10/12 12:09      
            Head or tail wind? Or riding in a group or alone?      Per Westermark      03/10/12 12:38      
               Way overcomplicating this      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 14:02      
                  Sensors      Steve M. Taylor      03/10/12 14:22      
                     how indeed      Andy Peters      03/11/12 12:37      
                  Wrong - you are totally missing the drag factor      Per Westermark      03/10/12 14:22      
                     Not at all.      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 16:03      
                        Real manufacturers haven't found your idea simple...      Per Westermark      03/10/12 17:09      
                           Point made      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 18:46      
                           Some of your points are just wrong      Justin Fontes      03/10/12 19:04      
                              Sounds like you expect an infinite acceleration      Per Westermark      03/11/12 06:49      
                                 Repeat post Ignore      Justin Fontes      03/11/12 11:39      
                                 I try for a constant power      Justin Fontes      03/11/12 11:52      
                                    Crank rpm - not back wheel rpm      Per Westermark      03/12/12 00:31      
                                       I got the two confused      Justin Fontes      03/12/12 10:37      
                                          Bandwidth + return channel      Per Westermark      03/12/12 12:07      
                        Oh dear, so many variable constants      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 06:48      
                  rocket science      Maarten Brock      03/11/12 03:58      
                     So don't ignore them      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 07:39      
                        Of course, it is...      Kai Klaas      03/11/12 08:18      
                           wireless      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 08:36      
                              Costs...      Kai Klaas      03/11/12 12:59      
                                 cost      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 13:39      
                                    Another problem      Joseph Hebert      03/12/12 21:14      
                                       This was addressed earlier      Justin Fontes      03/12/12 22:02      
                                       Multiple strain gauges      Per Westermark      03/13/12 00:53      
                                          Competitive bicycling      Justin Fontes      03/13/12 10:24      
                                             Pulse      Per Westermark      03/13/12 10:55      
                                                If I had the power meter      Justin Fontes      03/13/12 11:14      
                                                   Normalizing with heart beats cancels some errors      Per Westermark      03/13/12 12:39      
                                                      Just to get some data to look at      Jez Smith      03/15/12 03:37      
                                                         Jez ?      Steve M. Taylor      04/14/12 04:35      
                                                            Oh Noes!!!!!!      Jez Smith      04/14/12 10:58      
                                                            The plan is      Jez Smith      04/15/12 01:55      
                                                               Brum doesn't HAVE mountains      Steve M. Taylor      04/15/12 14:51      
                                                                  Ah yes but no but      Jez Smith      04/15/12 23:23      
                                                                  Actualy...      Jez Smith      04/15/12 23:35      
                                                   If I had a power meter...      Oliver Sedlacek      04/16/12 04:20      
                                                      Ive been testing things      Jez Smith      04/16/12 04:41      
                                                         Well, no      Steve M. Taylor      04/16/12 07:41      
                                                            all very well thank you Steve      Jez Smith      04/16/12 08:45      
                                                               Getting nasty      Steve M. Taylor      04/17/12 10:54      
                                                                  nasty ?      Jez Smith      04/20/12 12:09      
                                 More time than money if access to machinery      Per Westermark      03/12/12 00:57      
                                 Strain gauge elastic fixtures      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 06:55      
                           Sure      Per Westermark      03/11/12 09:42      

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