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Per Westermark
03/13/12 00:53
Read: 549 times
Sweden


 
#186627 - Multiple strain gauges
Responding to: Joseph Hebert's previous message
I think Shimano uses 8 strain gauges in the pedal axis and after you have installed the pedal it auto-calibrates itsel after a couple of revolutions based on the knowledge of where in the rotation cycle the rider will be able to push the highest force.

Bike computer systems normally also make use of a cadence sensor, to measure number of revolutions/minute of the cranks. Such a sensor would also work as an index marker when the cranks are at a specific rotation angle. So it would be quick to notice which of two measurement channels that represents the left and the right pedal.

Some cheaper systems only measure force on one pedal or a combined force for both legs. Some systems (what I would consider "better") separates the readings so they can tell what imbalance there is between left and right leg, besides the absolute power value.

When it comes to forces not driving the cranks, I don't think too many cyclists have the energy (or stupidity) to waste any larger amount of effort into trying to push the pedal in directions that the pedal does not move. Standing still waiting at a red light, you may push down on the bottom-most pedal but with zero RPM that would represent zero power. And if same thing is done while biking, a system that can guestimate an approximate angle of the cranks and an approximate angle of the force (multple strain gauges) would know there is a zero momentum axis at that position. So it would still not compute it into power.

In the end, you must have multiple strain gauges unless you can guarantee that the strain gauges are always arranged so they see maximum deflection from a tangental force and not a radial force. If you can manage that, then the physical sensor will mostly ignore forces in wrong direction. If you can't guarantee that and needs multiple strain gauges, then you automatically gets a way of computing the direction of the force - so it can be splitted into a radial and a tangential component.

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
bikey design challenge      Jez Smith      03/09/12 12:14      
   Only 400W?      Per Westermark      03/09/12 12:23      
      Its a bit different on the road      Jez Smith      03/09/12 12:34      
         Brilliant idea in the bath      Jez Smith      03/09/12 13:35      
            Might work      Per Westermark      03/09/12 13:51      
               well...      Jez Smith      03/09/12 14:33      
                  So you are yourself saying 400W is a bit low max scale      Per Westermark      03/09/12 14:43      
                     O.K then 500 watts      Jez Smith      03/10/12 00:56      
                        Battery      Per Westermark      03/10/12 05:11      
            Fun with strain gauges      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 05:57      
         You sure?      Per Westermark      03/09/12 13:48      
   nice ride      Andy Peters      03/09/12 14:31      
      fanks      Jez Smith      03/10/12 00:54      
   Sigma Rox 9.1...      Kai Klaas      03/10/12 09:59      
      Sigma fake      Per Westermark      03/10/12 11:07      
         What do you expect for that price?      Kai Klaas      03/10/12 12:09      
            Head or tail wind? Or riding in a group or alone?      Per Westermark      03/10/12 12:38      
               Way overcomplicating this      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 14:02      
                  Sensors      Steve M. Taylor      03/10/12 14:22      
                     how indeed      Andy Peters      03/11/12 12:37      
                  Wrong - you are totally missing the drag factor      Per Westermark      03/10/12 14:22      
                     Not at all.      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 16:03      
                        Real manufacturers haven't found your idea simple...      Per Westermark      03/10/12 17:09      
                           Point made      Joseph Hebert      03/10/12 18:46      
                           Some of your points are just wrong      Justin Fontes      03/10/12 19:04      
                              Sounds like you expect an infinite acceleration      Per Westermark      03/11/12 06:49      
                                 Repeat post Ignore      Justin Fontes      03/11/12 11:39      
                                 I try for a constant power      Justin Fontes      03/11/12 11:52      
                                    Crank rpm - not back wheel rpm      Per Westermark      03/12/12 00:31      
                                       I got the two confused      Justin Fontes      03/12/12 10:37      
                                          Bandwidth + return channel      Per Westermark      03/12/12 12:07      
                        Oh dear, so many variable constants      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 06:48      
                  rocket science      Maarten Brock      03/11/12 03:58      
                     So don't ignore them      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 07:39      
                        Of course, it is...      Kai Klaas      03/11/12 08:18      
                           wireless      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 08:36      
                              Costs...      Kai Klaas      03/11/12 12:59      
                                 cost      Joseph Hebert      03/11/12 13:39      
                                    Another problem      Joseph Hebert      03/12/12 21:14      
                                       This was addressed earlier      Justin Fontes      03/12/12 22:02      
                                       Multiple strain gauges      Per Westermark      03/13/12 00:53      
                                          Competitive bicycling      Justin Fontes      03/13/12 10:24      
                                             Pulse      Per Westermark      03/13/12 10:55      
                                                If I had the power meter      Justin Fontes      03/13/12 11:14      
                                                   Normalizing with heart beats cancels some errors      Per Westermark      03/13/12 12:39      
                                                      Just to get some data to look at      Jez Smith      03/15/12 03:37      
                                                         Jez ?      Steve M. Taylor      04/14/12 04:35      
                                                            Oh Noes!!!!!!      Jez Smith      04/14/12 10:58      
                                                            The plan is      Jez Smith      04/15/12 01:55      
                                                               Brum doesn't HAVE mountains      Steve M. Taylor      04/15/12 14:51      
                                                                  Ah yes but no but      Jez Smith      04/15/12 23:23      
                                                                  Actualy...      Jez Smith      04/15/12 23:35      
                                                   If I had a power meter...      Oliver Sedlacek      04/16/12 04:20      
                                                      Ive been testing things      Jez Smith      04/16/12 04:41      
                                                         Well, no      Steve M. Taylor      04/16/12 07:41      
                                                            all very well thank you Steve      Jez Smith      04/16/12 08:45      
                                                               Getting nasty      Steve M. Taylor      04/17/12 10:54      
                                                                  nasty ?      Jez Smith      04/20/12 12:09      
                                 More time than money if access to machinery      Per Westermark      03/12/12 00:57      
                                 Strain gauge elastic fixtures      Oliver Sedlacek      03/12/12 06:55      
                           Sure      Per Westermark      03/11/12 09:42      

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