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Richard Erlacher
05/29/13 11:42
Read: 975 times
Denver, Co

#189831 - this goes to the heart of the issue ...
Responding to: Andy Neil's previous message
Andy Neil said:
Erik Malund said:
decent USB equipment work very well,

See Michael's excellent post:
Many (most?) of the problems are nothing specifically to do with USB but, rather, with ill-conceived, non-portable PC software...

So I would say, "decent USB equipment work very well when used appropriately"


Andy Neil said:
Many (most?) of the problems are nothing specifically to do with USB but, rather, with ill-conceived, non-portable PC software...

It's almost a chicken or egg problem, except that we all know which came first. For years, people thought it clever, efficient, and certainly proper, to use resources already available before introducing new ones. Hence, people used the unused handshakes on the serial port to do GPIO things. The sad fact that it's not so convenient to do that with the USB-based serial ports is probably the reason there have been problems with serial programmers, in some cases, working, and in others, failing, in combination with the various MCU-specific serial MCU programmers. Needless to say, the problem is just as bad with parallel port adapters.

I personally find it offensive that, while my old 1996-vintage notebook has a classic serial port and a parallel port, the latter capable of "classic" mode, PS@-bidirectional mode, EPP mode, and ECP mode, a new and otherwise considered much more powerful notebook available today would require external hardware to provide the same capabilities, if it were at all possible to do that. It's almost as though somewhere, in a conference room full of executives, there were a discussion like, "Well, what can we do to the design of modern PC's to make them less capable of doing anything useful?"

The problem, IMHO, isn't with the "ill-conceived" hardware and software design of years past, but, rather, with the inane notion that leaving features off the newer products can masquerade as progress. That's why I don't donate my old computers any longer. I hang onto them, so that the useful function that they once provided won't be lost forever.

As for the O/P's query, it's an old one, and has never been directly addressed, probably for a number of reasons, but the problem he's experiencing is 3-pronged. (1) ATMEL has published a number of serial programmer circuits that have been commercially produced by third parties, not many of which are applicable to more than a few MCU's, (2) not all ATMEL's published programming software works with all these programming circuits, and (3) few, if any, of these ATMEL programming circuits and programming softwares, are even reasonably interchangeable. None of this seems terrible until you're in the position in which the O/P finds himself. He doesn't know which programming software he should be using with the combination of programmer and MCU that he's got.

Perhaps some avid ATMEL user will clear this up by publishing a list of programming circuits, programming software, and MCU's that are actually likely to work together, and, in addition, which USB-based serial ports will enable them to function properly together.



List of 31 messages in thread
At89s52 programming and interfacing      Abhisek Singh      05/05/13 12:25      
   What development board?      Kai Klaas      05/06/13 05:09      
      link      Abhisek Singh      05/10/13 12:15      
         don't know any, but ....      Erik Malund      05/10/13 14:01      
   It is a well known fact ...      Erik Malund      05/06/13 09:01      
      Drivers      J. Guy      05/06/13 10:50      
      that's one of the penatlies for using USB.      Richard Erlacher      05/06/13 13:53      
         Caught up in......      Michael Karas      05/06/13 20:59      
      CP2102      Joseph Hebert      05/08/13 10:41      
         FTDI chip clock      Oliver Sedlacek      05/09/13 04:20      
            FTDI      Joseph Hebert      05/09/13 09:48      
               multi-port parts      Jim Granville      05/09/13 14:08      
         FTDI Combined Driver      Maarten Brock      05/10/13 09:01      
            FTDI      Joseph Hebert      05/10/13 11:42      
   USB advantages 100 penalties 2 ...      Erik Malund      05/06/13 14:17      
      Do those work with the various ATMEL "programmers"?      Richard Erlacher      05/08/13 08:23      
         Not Awways the USB Converter's Fault        Michael Karas      05/26/13 17:18      
            Absolutely!!      Andy Neil      05/27/13 04:22      
            I wouldn't argue with that for a minute      Richard Erlacher      05/27/13 10:57      
               Board version        Jim Granville      05/27/13 14:25      
                  The Board In Question      Andy Neil      05/27/13 17:46      
         RE: "an old PC that has a real serial port"      Andy Neil      05/27/13 04:26      
            Well .... actually ... no ...       Richard Erlacher      05/27/13 10:46      
               Old apps on Windows 7 (or 8)      Oliver Sedlacek      05/30/13 02:36      
                  don't know what "old apps" yo refer to, but ...      Erik Malund      05/30/13 07:21      
                     That's what I've said about Vista and Win7      Richard Erlacher      05/30/13 10:03      
                     OrCAD 9      Oliver Sedlacek      05/31/13 01:49      
                        It's a windows version, and much less capable than v 1.0      Richard Erlacher      05/31/13 08:33      
      RE: "decent USB equipment works very well"      Andy Neil      05/27/13 04:29      
         this goes to the heart of the issue ...       Richard Erlacher      05/29/13 11:42      
   Terminal emulator      D.C. Van Warendorp      05/25/13 08:42      

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